Main Menu

News:

We've got a new forum. The old one will remain available as archive.

I Hate Turn-Based Combat

Started by Silver Sorrow, Aug 05, 2023, 01:14 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Silver Sorrow

...which is why I'm waiting on a refund for Baldur's Gate 3. I thought I'd at least try the thing, see if I could overcome my repugnance for dice rolls and being subject to crowds of monsters waiting in line to kill me, but no. I got about an hour into it and was not impressed at all.

Wait, check that: the cinematics were actually good. And character creation wasn't too bad (a TON of hairstyles? most of them good? unbelievable!), but then I got into the action and I didn't like it at all.

See, I understand that my non-enjoyment of the game is *mostly* on me (as I have stated elsewhere, I am a miserable bastard). But the awkwardness of the controls/camera and such did not help in the slightest. So I'm out.

I did get a fairly good-looking character, though. Too bad the cosmetic angle was the only thing that had me interested.

That's not to say that this is a bad game, NO. It's just not for me. I gave it a try, and I didn't like it. Don't let that stop you from trying it for yourself.
...there's an angel standing in the sun...

Starfox

Curiously I don't hate turn-based. I think in can be fun when well done. A few games get it all wrong though and it's a shame.

I don't even know if I'll give BG3 a try. reading the recommended specs alone made me think "What the hell did they tried to achieve here?". It's plain D&D turn based, nothing that should be especially taxing, even with good looking graphics, but there one has the feeling they went to develop Cyberpunk 2077 next-gen.

Get back down on Earth guys ::)

Guess what it means!

Silver Sorrow

I was completely thrown off turn-based games when I played Neverwinter Nights, so I likely missed out on some good games. And then there was NWN2, which didn't exactly make me want to embrace the concept with rapturous abandon.

I preferred the way Bioware handled combat, like with Jade Empire or Dragon Age, featuring smoother camera movement and such. Most of the isometric RPGs I've tried are these horrible, clunky, awkward ordeals that make me tired more than anything else. (...okay, I'd like to look behind me, so I'll just hold middle mouse button and...no, wait, wrong mode...go into this other camera mode and hold the pointer on the edge of the screen and whooooaaaaaa! too fast! gotta go into options and reduce panning speed and...)

Ah, well. I guess they can't all be Mass Effect. Sadly.

Anyway, the emphasis I saw was on the graphics end of things. Making it pretty and cinematic. Which is just fine by me, but I'm not so sure everyone can afford the latest in hardware just for pretty explosions.

The one thing I truly didn't like was that the chargen process wasn't all that informative (or friendly, even). After an intro movie (or more? I think I blacked out at some point), I started a new game; with little explanation as to what I should do next, I was hustled through the character creation process with few frills in the way of instruction. It's like they expect me to know exactly what I should be doing and what all of my options are ahead of time. Granted, there have been morons...uh...fans playing this thing since early access, but come on: tailor the experience to welcome new players, rather than turning it onto some sort of expert-only clique.

At least the NWN games were n00b-friendly. They killed you pretty quick, but you had scads of info on what the features were.

Reminds me a bit of when I played Grim Dawn: it's like stumbling into the middle of a seemingly interesting conversation in a comic book store. But trying to make sense of it all only gets them sighing and sneering at you. It makes you wonder why, exactly, you're in a comic book store in the first place.

"Probably because I hate myself," you might conclude. "I bet the pages of their comic books are all stuck together," you might also mutter to yourself.
...there's an angel standing in the sun...

Silver Sorrow

However -- he continued after some much-needed sleep -- I have nothing whatsoever against Larian Studios or their game. Apparently there's been backlash against them for raising the quality bar so high that the current crop of lazy, greedy pinheads at the AAA studios are boo-hooing over the whole thing. Imagine being distraught over the necessity of excelling in your chosen field.

And hey, I'll likely give BG3 another try someday. But I have a few other things begging for my attention right now.

EDIT

Okay, okay, okay. Geez. I went ahead and bought it again. And I bought the digital deluxe dlc as a sort of apology to the fine folks at Steam in my haste to refund it.

I often wonder what's wrong with me, but in this case I blame a couple of Swiss ancestors for my wishy-washy nature. They're great scapegoats for when I pull this crap.

Anyway, I thought I'd also try out using my controller, as the game's supposed to have full controller support. My hands are getting clumsier as I barrel my way towards decrepitude, after all.
...there's an angel standing in the sun...

Silver Sorrow

Okay, so...interesting. There seems to be a much more informative chargen process now than what I first encountered. I don't know if that's new, or I'm just completely oblivious. I'm leaning towards the latter, really.

Actually, it's a lot more user-friendly than my first impression. It's been a few days since the release, so maybe they've changed a few things? I don't know. I'm not that observant, as previously established. (Famous last words: "A truck?")

Well, my interest has been refreshed. It sure as hell beats futzing around with Fallout 4 again...
...there's an angel standing in the sun...

Starfox

Here's an idea: you should get a second refund then buy it again! Third time's a charm they say! ;D

And yes, Larian games have had full controller support since... Original Sin 1 I think...

Guess what it means!

Silver Sorrow

I'll try and get a refund every time they release a DLC, and then buy it again. Just to be a jerk.

Do I have Original Sin? I had to look and I have Divine Divinity and Divinity: Original Sin 2, and Divinity II, but...it's confusing. I'm confused. But I think they're confused even more. When the devs start throwing extra words into the titles along with a colon, it all goes to hell.

I should probably throw in a screenshot here. However, I don't have any prepared. So I won't.

Translation: my dinner isn't setting too well and I need to take a handful of Tums and feel sorry for myself.

EDIT: Screenshots

You know, they make some pretty good Tums flavors now. My current favorite is Coconut Pineapple...which is kind of like a Pina Colada, only you have to provide the rum yourself.

Anyway...screens. The idea here is to show off the level of detail, etc.

First, the human monk. I played a monk in NWN and it was kind of interesting (meaning: how fast I was massacred as I punched horrible things), so I thought I'd give that a whirl as my first character.

You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

And, for some strange reason, I created a drow warlock. I think it's just to see how fast I can get my ass killed.

You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

A drow with black hair?? Yes. My only complaint is that you can't have true black skin or hair. I don't know what it is with some of these games, but getting true black hair is impossible without mods. The Dragon Age series, for example.

Honestly? I just like creating characters. Back in high school, some of my friends -- hard to believe I actually had friends at some point -- played D&D during lunch and I'd just have fun rolling chars and sketching them. Back when I was young and had ambitions and actually thought I could make a go of it as an artist someday. But no...no!

Okay, now I'm depressed. Happy now? Are you happy now!?

ANYWAY, the facegen options aren't exactly definitive (no tweaking of nose angles and the like) but you do get a good-looking character. There are a limited number of faces and body types (two for each gender), but a ton of hairstyles, tattoos, skin tones, eye colors (including, as you can tell from the first two, heterechromia [sp?]), and so on. You can even give your gal a beard and a husky frame if you like that sort of thing. A bunch of different races and sub-races for many of them. Classes abound, etc. etc. etc..

So I guess that's covered. Now I just need to play the thing.

Side Note: I just wonder if Starfield's going to be as strangely finicky and restrictive as Fallout 4 (not hard to get a hideous character in that mess) or as ugly as Skyrim (shudder). I guess it doesn't matter, as the retex masters will be tripping over themselves to make it pretty anyway.

Just as long as they don't turn it into the bizarre Glamour Shots scene that Cyberpunk has become...
...there's an angel standing in the sun...

Starfox

QuoteDo I have Original Sin? I had to look and I have Divine Divinity and Divinity: Original Sin 2, and Divinity II, but...it's confusing. I'm confused. But I think they're confused even more. When the devs start throwing extra words into the titles along with a colon, it all goes to hell.

Timeline speaking it would be (prepare to be confused -- the # in front of the title represent the order in which hey were released):

5 Divinity; Original Sin 1
1 Divine Divinity
2 Beyond Divinity
4 Divinity Dragon Commander (actually a spin-off of Divine Divinity)
3 Divinity II Ego Draconis
6 Divinity; Original Sin 2

And Baldur's Gate 3 (a friend told me it should have been called Original Sin 3; take that for what you will)

Do you feel better?  ;D

Oh and those screens are awesome. One really can see where all the processing power needed to run the game is going to  :)

Guess what it means!

Silver Sorrow

Fresh-Faced Neophyte: Okay, I'd like the whole experience. Let's start at the beginning.

Haggard, Weary Mentor: Oh, you're gonna LOVE this, newbie.

Hmmm... "Divinely Divine Divinity VII or XIII or Whatever: Original Sin 3: Baldur's Gate...uh...3."

I remember when Divine Dinity came out, only because PCGamer mentioned that it was probably the dumbest name imaginable for a game. Well, Larian proved 'em wrong, didn't they?

"We should put something in the title about dragons. But class it up. Draconis, right? Sounds cool? Better than Ted's suggestion of 'Dragon Squat Rally'...yeah, I'm looking at YOU, Ted. And I am disgusted. You weak little squeak."

The visuals are one thing, but...I admit, I'm having a hard time getting into this thing. I'm a bit distracted of late, so there's that. And I keep wanting to move with WASD, probably because I've also been messing around with Fallout 4 (I have no idea why); the completely different mechanics are somewhat distressing. I should focus on one or the other, really. So I think I'll put this one aside and come back to it a little later. I'm not really in the right frame of mind for stat-juggling.

Think Steam will fall for the refund thing again? I'm thinking "no," but faint heart never won an admittedly fair account ban.
...there's an angel standing in the sun...

Starfox

QuoteWe should put something in the title about dragons. But class it up. Draconis, right?

;D

That bit is there because in the game... you are a dragon. More precisely you are the last dragon knight, a human that with the proper training and bauble can transform into a fully fledged dragon almost at will (you just need enough free space) with wings, fire breathing, fireball launching and all. And yep, you can even fly to reach inaccessible places. You can even find special armor (different kind and style) for your dragon form. So in the case of that particular game, Ego Draconis (or something like "Me the dragon") was justified.

The funny bit is that you also belong to a human order of dragon hunters. You can see the dilemma that poses :D

It was a pretty innovative concept back when it was released. And running on the Gamebryo 32bits engine from Bethesda... And despite of that the game never crashed on me, not even once.

QuoteThink Steam will fall for the refund thing again? I'm thinking "no," but faint heart never won an admittedly fair account ban.

They might but if you try buying it a third time they will go "Nope! Not selling to you EVER AGAIN".  ;D

Guess what it means!